someone explain phase 2 to me like I have not read a paper in years
Genuine question, and the title is the question: someone explain phase 2 to me like I have not read a paper in years.
Stopped at a low step because there was no reason to go further and no data to tell me what further would do.
The thing that surprised me was how much of the discussion here is inference rather than measurement.
Kept a log specifically because there is so little published. It is one person and it is not data.
Not medical advice, obviously, and nothing here is approved for human use. One person with a spreadsheet.
best — the order this archive was captured in
Glucagon receptor agonism is associated with increased energy expenditure and with hepatic effects. That is a mechanistic story with strong preclinical support and limited phase 2 human data.
the glucagon component is why the metabolic story reads differently
Yes — the comparison threads are apples to oranges and they generate more heat than anything else here.
dose escalation in the trials was slow for a reason
Sent a vial to VendorInvestigate out of curiosity. Result was 99.1% against a claimed 98.5%, which is the first independent number I had seen for this compound anywhere.
the TRIUMPH programme is still running, so anything definitive is premature
Sent a vial to VendorInvestigate out of curiosity.
yara_lindholm is right about the escalation being the variable. It explains most of the difficult reports here.
Phase 2 estimates effect and finds a dose range. Phase 3 estimates it precisely in a bigger population and catches what phase 2 was too small to see. Treating them as the same tier of evidence is the recurring error here.
the escalation is where most of the reported trouble sits
Read the phase 2 paper twice before ordering anything. Recommend that to anyone in this board: the error bars are the interesting part.
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Independent purity testing on this compound is thin compared with the older molecules, simply because fewer members have paid for it. Fewer results means wider uncertainty, not a verdict.
Same read. The energy-expenditure mechanism is the interesting bit and it is not established in humans at scale.
the phase 2 numbers were striking and they were also 48 weeks in a small population
Cosigning the escalation point. Almost every difficult report on this board is from somebody who went up quickly.
It is a triple agonist at the GLP-1, GIP and glucagon receptors. The glucagon arm is the genuinely novel component and it is the one with the least human outcome data behind it.
wait for phase 3 before you argue about rankings
How fast was the escalation? That is usually the variable that explains the reports.
comparing reta phase 2 to sema phase 3 is comparing different things
Agreed on the heart-rate reports. They are consistent enough across the threads to be worth noting, not enough to be a finding.
Nothing containing this compound is approved anywhere. Research-use-only material is not approved for human use, and that is a statement of fact rather than a disclaimer.
The phase 2 readout ran to 48 weeks in a few hundred participants with a slow escalation. Both the size and the duration matter when people quote the headline number.
research-use-only material is not approved for human use, full stop
Small fix — three receptors, not two. GLP-1, GIP and glucagon, and the third one is the reason this compound gets its own board.
Increases in heart rate have been reported across this receptor class. The magnitude and clinical significance are exactly what phase 3 is powered to establish.
a lot of the confident posting here is extrapolation
Went up slowly, deliberately, because everything on this board says the escalation is where trouble lives. Uneventful so far and I am not going to pretend that is a finding.
Has anyone posted an independent test on this compound recently?
the energy-expenditure story is mechanistically interesting and clinically unproven
triple agonist — GLP-1, GIP and glucagon, and the glucagon arm is the new part
- 1Phase 2 estimates effect and finds a dose range. Phase 3 estimates it…8 comments in this branch · started by u/mateusz_mensah
- 2Glucagon receptor agonism is associated with increased energy expenditure…7 comments in this branch · started by u/priya_weiss