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c/tirzepatide·posted 2 years ago by u/alcohol_aversion

[Meta] the tirzepatide rule is doing its job and people should stop complaining

Question Clean Column ×4 Receipts ×3 Slow Clap ×2

the tirzepatide rule is doing its job and people should stop complaining, and it will stay as it is unless somebody makes the case to change it.

The four-week interval in the label is a minimum. Nothing about the pharmacology requires you to step on schedule, and the trials stepped on a calendar because trials have to.

It is a dual GIP and GLP-1 receptor agonist, and the GIP arm is the part that has no equivalent in the semaglutide threads. That is why the side-effect profile reads differently rather than just milder.

Weekly dosing again, half-life in the same neighbourhood as sema, so a step change takes about a month to reach steady state. Judging a new step at day five is judging noise.

Please do not ask me what dose you should be on. I genuinely do not know and neither does anyone else here.

6,749 up / 406 down94% upvoted33 commentsid 15e8yb19 Apr 2024

33 comments

30 in this archive, depth 6

best — the order this archive was captured in

u/aksel_kjaer0 points·2 years ago

The distribution matters more than the mean. In the trial population the interquartile spread was wide enough that two honest people can have completely different runs on the same arm.

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u/titration_marshalMOD1 point·2 years ago

Trial identifiers corrected in the title. SURMOUNT and SURPASS are different programmes.

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u/alcohol_aversionOP1 point·2 years ago·edited

the appetite effect is blunter than sema, in a good way, most weeks

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u/alcohol_aversionOP1 point·2 years ago

That percentage is body weight change, not body fat. Different measurement, and the distinction gets lost every time.

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[removed]1 point·2 years ago

[removed by moderator]

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u/gustav_vermeulen1 point·2 years ago·edited

Disagree with the conversion table. There is no validated equivalence between the two molecules and posting one as though there is does real damage.

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u/yusuf_ramos1 point·2 years ago

zepbound and mounjaro are the same compound with different labels

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u/laila_yilmaz1 point·2 years ago

2.5 is the starter dose and it is not meant to be the dose that works

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u/alcohol_aversionOP1 point·2 years ago

What step are you on and how long have you been there?

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u/curious_panel_only1 point·2 years ago

Came off sema and onto tirz with a two-week gap. The first month was flat and I assumed I had made a mistake. Month two it moved.

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u/crosspost_bot_no916 points·2 years ago

the trials titrated on a calendar, real people titrate on symptoms

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u/certified_referenceQC387 points·2 years ago

The step schedule question, answered properly, because it comes up weekly.

The label sets a minimum interval of four weeks between increases. That is a floor on how fast you may go, and it exists because tolerability, not efficacy, is what limits most people. There is nothing in the pharmacology that says you must increase at four weeks, or at eight, or ever.

What decides it in practice is whether the effect you want is still there. If appetite is quiet and the trend is going the right way, the dose is doing its job. If both have genuinely gone flat for six weeks or more, that is a conversation worth having with someone who knows your history.

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u/zaid_balogun-24 points·2 years ago

SURMOUNT-1 ran 72 weeks with the top arm around 21% mean body weight change. SURPASS is the diabetes programme and reports glycaemic endpoints, so quoting the two interchangeably is a category error.

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u/gustav_vermeulen1 point·2 years ago·edited

2.5mg is a four-week starting dose, not a maintenance dose. Worth being precise since people search these threads.

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u/zeynep_zielinski106 points·2 years ago

Vials and pens carry the same molecule; what differs is fill volume, device tolerance and whether you are doing your own arithmetic. Neither is inherently more accurate.

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u/certified_referenceQC233 points·2 years ago

Correction to my own post above — I said 2.5mg and I have been on 15mg since the spring. Same argument, wrong number.

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u/mikkel_ogunleye56 points·2 years ago

if 7.5 is working, 10 is not automatically better

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u/two_mil_or_one88 points·2 years ago

Right. And the sema-to-tirz "conversion" people post is invented. There is no published equivalence.

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u/taper_off_tabitha51 points·2 years ago

Right.

Not sure about this bit. The GIP arm being real does not tell you that it is what caused your particular week.

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u/cormac_pereira19 points·2 years ago

Cosigning the four-week thing. It is a minimum interval, and treating it as a schedule to keep up with is how people end up miserable at 12.5.

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u/matias_salgado11 points·2 years ago

Cosigning the four-week thing.

cormac_pereira is right that the two molecules are not interchangeable. There is no published conversion and the ones circulating are invented.

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u/ghrp_history273 points·2 years ago

The thing nobody warned me about was how much of this is logistics — storing it, remembering it, the same day every week.

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u/zeynep_zielinski128 points·2 years ago·edited

The thing nobody warned me about was how much of this is logistics — storing it, remembering it, the same day every week.

This. The step interval is a floor, and reading it as a timetable is the most expensive mistake in the thread.

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u/noor_hovland103 points·2 years ago

Not sure that follows. You went up a step and changed your training in the same fortnight.

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u/dario_vermeulen54 points·2 years ago

the constipation profile is genuinely gentler than people expect coming from sema

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u/quiet_moderatormod198 points·2 years ago

Push back: "gentler than sema" is a population statement. Plenty of people on this board have the opposite experience and they are not doing it wrong.

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u/samir_falk87 points·2 years ago

Yes — 10mg being a genuine landing place for a lot of people is underrated. There is no medal for 15.

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u/hana_pereira29 points·2 years ago

switching from sema is not a dose conversion, there is no clean equivalence

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u/sanne_novak10 points·2 years ago

SURMOUNT-1 landed around 21% at 72 weeks on the top arm

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u/graph_it_gary94 points·2 years ago

I would separate the two claims. That the GIP arm exists is uncontroversial; that it explains your food noise pattern is a guess.

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About c/tirzepatide

Tirzepatide-specific discussion: the dual-agonist pharmacology, the 2.5 → 15mg ladder, the appetite profile people describe as different from semaglutide, and the SURMOUNT/SURPASS trial programme. Comparisons with semaglutide are welcome as long as they are specific about dose equivalence being unknown.

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