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c/coldchain·posted 2 years ago by u/jarno_adeyemi

[Discussion] data logger is doing more work than we give it credit for

Discussion Well Actually ×9 Sourced ×2 Long Haul ×1

data logger is doing more work than we give it credit for. It is the sort of thing everyone half-believes and nobody writes down.

Once in solution, the relevant risks are hydrolysis, aggregation and, for some sequences, oxidation. Refrigeration slows all three; freezing a solution introduces a separate risk at the ice interface.

A stability statement is only meaningful with its conditions attached: temperature, duration, light exposure, and whether it covers powder or solution. Ask which.

Gel packs are designed for a duty cycle. A liquid pack at the end of a longer-than-expected transit is a pack behaving as specified, not evidence of an excursion in the vial.

Please do not ask me what dose you should be on. I genuinely do not know and neither does anyone else here.

4,850 up / 603 down89% upvoted41 commentsid vo95ru7 Nov 2023

41 comments

30 in this archive, depth 5

best — the order this archive was captured in

u/analog_alphabet-22 points·2 years ago

On loggers, since I was sceptical and then bought one.

A small transit logger costs a fraction of a vial and records the whole journey rather than the moment of arrival. What I learned from three of them: my lane is far more stable than I assumed, the one excursion I did capture was on a weekend, and the arrival-temperature guessing I had been doing was worthless.

If you are going to argue about cold chain, argue from a chart. It is a one-off purchase and it ends the speculation permanently.

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u/anya_salgado1 point·2 years ago

light matters more than people think for some of these

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u/sten_palacios1 point·2 years ago

a warm gel pack tells you the pack failed, not that the material did

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u/runa_wikstrom1 point·2 years ago

ask which lines are held in regional stock before you order in July

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[removed]1 point·2 years ago

[removed by moderator]

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u/anders_karlsen1 point·2 years ago

Is this a line they hold in regional stock or is it shipping from origin?

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u/anjali_tamm1 point·2 years ago

What was the packaging — rigid outer, gel packs, anything insulating?

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u/kian_ekstrom1 point·2 years ago

Right, and asking what the stability statement was written against is one line of email that reframes everything.

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u/kian_solberg622 points·2 years ago·edited

Lyophilisation removes the water that drives most degradation pathways. That is why the dry cake is comparatively robust and the reconstituted solution is not.

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u/nils_ferreira139 points·2 years ago·edited

Regional stock changes the question rather than answering it: shorter lanes mean less exposure and fewer variables, which is why the warehouse question is worth asking before ordering in summer.

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u/jarno_adeyemiOP56 points·2 years ago

How many days in transit, and which month?

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u/emeka_delgado42 points·2 years ago

Which lane, and had it been quoted at that transit time?

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u/ines_lindqvist418 points·2 years ago

Careful. "The cold chain failed" is a strong claim and the evidence you have is a warm box.

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u/bruno_dumitru294 points·2 years ago

A transit temperature logger records a distribution, and time above a threshold matters as much as peak temperature. That is the argument for logging rather than guessing.

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u/soren_yildiz229 points·2 years ago

a summer lane and a winter lane are different lanes

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u/sequence_checkerresearch peptides81 points·2 years ago

ask what storage condition the stability statement was written against

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u/iman_castellanos127 points·2 years ago

Cosigning the regional stock point. Ordering from a warehouse in France took the whole question off my table.

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u/jarno_adeyemiOP74 points·2 years ago

Correction: that stability figure covers the lyophilised powder, not the reconstituted solution. Different claim entirely.

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u/kian_solberg0 points·2 years ago

Yes — reconstitution date on the vial. It is the number you will want and cannot reconstruct.

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u/careful_gradient_again72 points·2 years ago

Agreed. The dry powder is the robust state; it is the solution that needs the care.

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u/bastian_ekstrom0 points·2 years ago

Agreed.

This is the distinction that resolves most threads here — powder and solution are different problems.

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u/hplc_hobbyistruns their own column0 points·2 years ago

Small fix — refrigerated, not frozen, once it is in solution.

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u/nils_ferreira60 points·2 years ago

You cannot infer potency from a temperature record. The record tells you what happened to the box; only a test tells you what happened to the material.

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u/creatine_and_cardio32 points·2 years ago

I would not freeze it in solution. That is a different failure mode and a worse one.

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u/solene_abubakar9 points·2 years ago

transit temperature is a distribution, not a number

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u/hamza_weiss82 points·2 years ago

write the reconstitution date on the vial

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u/marit_laurent52 points·2 years ago·edited

write the reconstitution date on the vial

Agreed, and a logger costs less than the vial you are worrying about.

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About c/coldchain

Temperature and stability in the real world: what an excursion actually costs you, why lyophilised powder is far more forgiving than reconstituted solution, how to read a logger CSV, and how to photograph a failed shipment so the conversation with the vendor is short.

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