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c/hplc·posted 2 years ago by u/amara_haddad

[Question] is 94.2% actually fine or am I being sold a rounding error

Question Clean Column ×5 Sourced ×1 Slow Clap ×3

The claim in the title is exactly the claim I am making: is 94.2% actually fine or am I being sold a rounding error. Nothing implied beyond it.

Figures up front so nobody has to dig: 94.2%.

Gave the same trace to two people I trust and got two integrations about a point apart. That was the most educational afternoon I have had here.

Sent the same vial to Janoshik and VendorInvestigate. 99.6% against a claimed 99.0%. The difference was the gradient, not the material.

Ask me anything specific. Anything general I will probably get wrong.

33,446 up / 24,663 down58% upvoted31 commentsid rttkqb9 Feb 2024

31 comments

27 in this archive, depth 4

best — the order this archive was captured in

u/ewan_zielinski0 points·2 years ago

Area percent is the integrated area of your peak over the total integrated area at one wavelength on one gradient. Change any of those and the number changes without the sample changing.

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u/mariam_cabrera871 points·2 years ago

Did you run a blank between injections?

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u/amara_haddadOP626 points·2 years ago

Did you run a blank between injections?

Agreed. And the corollary is that the method line on a certificate is not decoration, it is the number’s provenance.

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u/quiet_reader_99528 points·2 years ago

Yes — system suitability first. Without it the number is an assertion about the instrument, not the sample.

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u/amara_haddadOP315 points·2 years ago

Same method at both labs, or two different gradients?

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u/clara_danquah858 points·2 years ago

Bought a second-hand instrument and learned more in six months of fixing it than in three years of reading traces.

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u/ewan_zielinski664 points·2 years ago

That figure cannot be quoted to two decimals off that baseline. The precision is not in the data.

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u/arne_nyberg-36 points·2 years ago

Can you post the trace with the axes labelled?

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u/amara_haddadOP1 point·2 years ago

the column has a history and it shows in the peak shape

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u/nora_lundgren250 points·2 years ago

This. A shoulder that does not baseline-resolve is a question, not a quantity.

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u/week_four_wall415 points·2 years ago

Reading a trace posted here, in the order I actually look at things.

Axes first — if the wavelength and the time axis are not labelled, I stop. Then the baseline: where has it been drawn, and does the drawing absorb anything. Then peak shape: fronting, tailing, a shoulder that never resolves. Then the blank, if one was run, for carryover.

Only after all of that do I look at the percentage, and by then I usually know how much weight it deserves. The number is the last thing on the page and the first thing everybody argues about, which is exactly backwards.

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u/honest_syringe_2025136 points·2 years ago

integration decisions move the number more than the sample does

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u/reflux_report48 points·2 years ago

Same view — reporting the gradient is what makes a result checkable rather than merely stated.

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u/coa_janitormod · c/coa413 points·2 years ago

a shoulder is not an impurity until you can resolve it

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u/rosa_sandvik314 points·2 years ago

A shoulder that does not baseline-resolve cannot be quantified honestly. You can report it as an unresolved shoulder, which is useful information, or you can develop the method until it resolves.

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u/freya_baptista197 points·2 years ago

How old is the column and roughly how many injections has it seen?

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u/adaeze_batista125 points·2 years ago·edited

What wavelength, and what was the gradient?

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u/mass_spec_maggieMS86 points·2 years ago

Careful — you are treating retention time as identity. Two things can co-elute and the trace will not tell you.

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u/priya_ogunleye67 points·2 years ago

That is area percent, not mass percent. The trace cannot give you the second one.

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u/arne_nyberg63 points·2 years ago

LC-MS for identity, UV for relative quantity

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u/ewan_marchand92 points·2 years ago

Carryover from a previous high-concentration injection looks exactly like a small impurity. The blank injection is four minutes and it removes the ambiguity entirely.

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u/rosa_sandvik161 points·2 years ago

UV response is not uniform across species. At 214nm you are looking at the peptide bond, which is why it is the working wavelength for this class; at 280nm you only see tryptophan, tyrosine and phenylalanine.

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u/zeynep_zielinski74 points·2 years ago

Yes. Retention time is a hypothesis about identity. Mass is the answer.

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u/step_count_stan51 points·2 years ago

Correction: that is a tailing factor, not a plate count. Different diagnostics for different problems.

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u/hugo_bergstrom25 points·2 years ago

Right. And a blank between injections settles the carryover argument before it starts.

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u/mateusz_mensah113 points·2 years ago

Agreed. Two analysts, one trace, two integration choices, and a spread that has nothing to do with the vial.

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u/careful_gradient78 points·2 years ago

JEEP sent me the column, the gradient and the theoretical mass without being asked. That is a short list and they are on it.

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The analytical deep end: RP-HPLC methods, gradient design, integration decisions, LC-MS confirmation, amino-acid analysis, water content, and why two labs can report 98.1% and 96.4% on the same vial and both be right. Post the chromatogram, not the summary line.

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